SHOULD I GET A SENTINEL LYMPH BIOPSY

Forums Cutaneous Melanoma Community SHOULD I GET A SENTINEL LYMPH BIOPSY

  • Post
    green8300
    Participant

       

      i was on the beach in australia half the year for 14 years,,,,i never put sun screen on,,,,,,,,,i have olive skin or so my mom told me,,,,,,,had a little thing on my back,,,,finally my dad payed for me to go to dermo,,,,turned out to be a .65 mm melanoma,,,,,i was freaked out and still am,,,,,,,,,,had a shave biopsy,,,,7mm submitted for processing,,,,,they say its a

       diagnosis   ,,,, malignant melanoma with extension to pap dermis clarks level 2,,,,,,,,

       

      i was on the beach in australia half the year for 14 years,,,,i never put sun screen on,,,,,,,,,i have olive skin or so my mom told me,,,,,,,had a little thing on my back,,,,finally my dad payed for me to go to dermo,,,,turned out to be a .65 mm melanoma,,,,,i was freaked out and still am,,,,,,,,,,had a shave biopsy,,,,7mm submitted for processing,,,,,they say its a

       diagnosis   ,,,, malignant melanoma with extension to pap dermis clarks level 2,,,,,,,,

      ,microscopic description         there are atypical malancytes present both singly and in nests along the dermoepidermal junction, the melanocytes have large nuclei with prominent nucieoli and abundant cytoplasn with brown granular pigment occasional mitotic figures are present the lesions is broad and poorly circumscribed laterally the nests do not maintain discretion and merge with both adjacent nests and single cells, the cells with in the nests have lost cohesion , atypical spindled melanocytes are present in the nests with in the papilary dermis aswell, these nests are irregular in size and shape and the melanocytes within them are atypical, a patchy lymphocythic infiltrate is present beneath the lesion

      note the neoplasm measure .65mm at its greatest thickness in these sections, the lesion is not ulcerated , a pathcy lymphocytic infiltrate is present beneath the lesion, one mitosis per square mm is identified

       

      then i got it cut out and this is what came back from pathologist

      excisional biopsy measurein 30mm was submitted for processing

      MICROSCOPIC DESCRIPTION

      there are sections of epidermis, dermis, and subcutaneous tisses present on these slides, there are atypical melancytes presentsingly and in nests in the epidermis adjacent to the prior surgical site which contains granulation tissue fibrosis and chronic inflamation and is covered with scale crust

      DIAGNOSIS

      skin and subcutaneous tissue with scar and persistance of melanoma

      NOTE

      residual intraepidermal melanoma is present in these sections however the surgical margins are clear and the neoplasm appears to be completely excised and incidental excised intradermal melanocytic nevus is also present in these sections

      any input would be greatly appreciated,,,,,,,,,ive been reading everything i can find,,,,i went to two top oncologists one guy said to do it the other kind of said i didnt need to,,,,and my dermo kind of thinks i dont need to,,,,,but she also did the wide excision,,,,,,and ur kind of not suppose to do that if u wanna get a good read off the drainage points so im confused and not relaxed about the whole thing,,,any input once again appreciated ,,,,,,thanks

    Viewing 5 reply threads
    • Replies
        natasha
        Participant

          Hi!

            I have thin melanoma as well. in UK SNB usually is recommended for tumors thicker  then 0.75mm, or less then what with ulceration or/and mitosis.

          I whould do SNB in your case.

          Risk of posiitive nodes I think is very very low ,but I whould do just in case ,to give myself peace of mind.

          Wish you all the best

          Natasha

            deardad
            Participant

              Hi there are a few on this board who will give you some very good advice about this, especially someone like Janner. I too think personally that I would have the SLB for piece of mind.

              Hoping all goes well.

              Nahmi from Melbourne

              deardad
              Participant

                Hi there are a few on this board who will give you some very good advice about this, especially someone like Janner. I too think personally that I would have the SLB for piece of mind.

                Hoping all goes well.

                Nahmi from Melbourne

                deardad
                Participant

                  Hi there are a few on this board who will give you some very good advice about this, especially someone like Janner. I too think personally that I would have the SLB for piece of mind.

                  Hoping all goes well.

                  Nahmi from Melbourne

                natasha
                Participant

                  Hi!

                    I have thin melanoma as well. in UK SNB usually is recommended for tumors thicker  then 0.75mm, or less then what with ulceration or/and mitosis.

                  I whould do SNB in your case.

                  Risk of posiitive nodes I think is very very low ,but I whould do just in case ,to give myself peace of mind.

                  Wish you all the best

                  Natasha

                  natasha
                  Participant

                    Hi!

                      I have thin melanoma as well. in UK SNB usually is recommended for tumors thicker  then 0.75mm, or less then what with ulceration or/and mitosis.

                    I whould do SNB in your case.

                    Risk of posiitive nodes I think is very very low ,but I whould do just in case ,to give myself peace of mind.

                    Wish you all the best

                    Natasha

                    Janner
                    Participant

                      You've already had the wide excision (WLE), right?  Then it's really too late to do the SNB.  That must be done prior to the WLE to have any real value.  The WLE removes a lot of tissue.  It may alter the drainage paths to the sentinel node.  The "sentinel node" they find after the WLE might not be the same one they would have found before the WLE.  The SNB and WLE are typically done in the same setting with the SNB first, followed by the WLE.   In my neck of the woods, they don't really do SNB's under 1mm unless you have higher risk factors.  Yours appears to be Clark's Level II and .65mm and doesn't appear to have high risk factors.  Personally, I probably wouldn't have done the SNB based on your lesion's characteristics (I don't like unnecessary surgery), but I definitely wouldn't do it now after the WLE.  I had a similar lesion (.58mm/Clark II/1 mitosis) removed 20 years ago and a deeper one (.88mm/Clark III/1 mitosis) removed 11 years ago with no SNB.  I'm still here and still stage I. 

                      It's common to be "nervous and not relaxed" about the whole thing – but it is what it is.  Doing the SNB at this point would not give ME peace of mind because of the WLE.  At this point, you do the things you can control.  You can't control melanoma, but you  can watch your own skin for changes and practice sun-wise behaviors.  It's hard to adjust to that lack of control but it does get easier with time.  The key is to be vigilant, but not paranoid.  It's easy to be paranoid now, but hopefully that will give way to vigilance as time passes.  Most things aren't melanoma.  It also sounds like you are doing tons of research.  Please understand that all the research may just increase your anxiety (speaking from experience) rather than decrease it.  It might be best to take a step back for a bit because your research will not tell you if YOU will ever deal with melanoma again.

                      Best wishes,

                      Janner

                        natasha
                        Participant

                          Dear Janner !

                                I know what SNB and Wider Excision should be done at the same day at one go. But I really do not undersatnd why so ,and Why Wider exsicion results will not be valuable if done later???

                          I understand if it is some melanoma cells in Lymth nodes already , it can be diagnosed and found any time even after tumor removel or wide cut out.

                           Please ,could you explain us this .

                           Thank you very much ,Janner , for all you help and support.

                          Natasha

                          Janner
                          Participant

                            It's the SNB that is compromised if the WLE is done first. 

                            Think about what a SNB does.  You inject dye/tracer into the center of the biopsy.  The tracer goes through the lymph vessels to the sentinel node — the first lymph node in the drainage basin.  If you do the SNB after just a biopsy, minimal skin was removed and most likely, the lymph vessels were not disturbed at all.  So basically the SNB is saying that if any melanoma cells escaped, they would be seen here first. 

                            When you do the WLE, you cut out a big chunk of skin down to the muscle fascia.  This severs both blood and lymph vessels.  The blood vessels may be cauterized (sealed) and everything is just sewn back together as best as the surgeon can.   Now, if you inject some type of tracer into the center of the WLE scar, it might go to lymph vessels that weren't that close to the center before — basically, the lymph vessels are different ones that they were previous to the WLE.  So now your sentinel node (first in the drainage path) is JUST A sentinel node.  It's the first node in the NEW pathway, but it may not have been parth of original pathway prior to the WLE.  You'd still get results, but you can never know if they are the correct results.

                            Hope this helps a little.

                            Janner

                            natasha
                            Participant

                              Thanks , Janner! I got it !! Yes , you are right .

                              Natasha

                              natasha
                              Participant

                                Thanks , Janner! I got it !! Yes , you are right .

                                Natasha

                                natasha
                                Participant

                                  Thanks , Janner! I got it !! Yes , you are right .

                                  Natasha

                                  Janner
                                  Participant

                                    It's the SNB that is compromised if the WLE is done first. 

                                    Think about what a SNB does.  You inject dye/tracer into the center of the biopsy.  The tracer goes through the lymph vessels to the sentinel node — the first lymph node in the drainage basin.  If you do the SNB after just a biopsy, minimal skin was removed and most likely, the lymph vessels were not disturbed at all.  So basically the SNB is saying that if any melanoma cells escaped, they would be seen here first. 

                                    When you do the WLE, you cut out a big chunk of skin down to the muscle fascia.  This severs both blood and lymph vessels.  The blood vessels may be cauterized (sealed) and everything is just sewn back together as best as the surgeon can.   Now, if you inject some type of tracer into the center of the WLE scar, it might go to lymph vessels that weren't that close to the center before — basically, the lymph vessels are different ones that they were previous to the WLE.  So now your sentinel node (first in the drainage path) is JUST A sentinel node.  It's the first node in the NEW pathway, but it may not have been parth of original pathway prior to the WLE.  You'd still get results, but you can never know if they are the correct results.

                                    Hope this helps a little.

                                    Janner

                                    Janner
                                    Participant

                                      It's the SNB that is compromised if the WLE is done first. 

                                      Think about what a SNB does.  You inject dye/tracer into the center of the biopsy.  The tracer goes through the lymph vessels to the sentinel node — the first lymph node in the drainage basin.  If you do the SNB after just a biopsy, minimal skin was removed and most likely, the lymph vessels were not disturbed at all.  So basically the SNB is saying that if any melanoma cells escaped, they would be seen here first. 

                                      When you do the WLE, you cut out a big chunk of skin down to the muscle fascia.  This severs both blood and lymph vessels.  The blood vessels may be cauterized (sealed) and everything is just sewn back together as best as the surgeon can.   Now, if you inject some type of tracer into the center of the WLE scar, it might go to lymph vessels that weren't that close to the center before — basically, the lymph vessels are different ones that they were previous to the WLE.  So now your sentinel node (first in the drainage path) is JUST A sentinel node.  It's the first node in the NEW pathway, but it may not have been parth of original pathway prior to the WLE.  You'd still get results, but you can never know if they are the correct results.

                                      Hope this helps a little.

                                      Janner

                                      natasha
                                      Participant

                                        Dear Janner !

                                              I know what SNB and Wider Excision should be done at the same day at one go. But I really do not undersatnd why so ,and Why Wider exsicion results will not be valuable if done later???

                                        I understand if it is some melanoma cells in Lymth nodes already , it can be diagnosed and found any time even after tumor removel or wide cut out.

                                         Please ,could you explain us this .

                                         Thank you very much ,Janner , for all you help and support.

                                        Natasha

                                        natasha
                                        Participant

                                          Dear Janner !

                                                I know what SNB and Wider Excision should be done at the same day at one go. But I really do not undersatnd why so ,and Why Wider exsicion results will not be valuable if done later???

                                          I understand if it is some melanoma cells in Lymth nodes already , it can be diagnosed and found any time even after tumor removel or wide cut out.

                                           Please ,could you explain us this .

                                           Thank you very much ,Janner , for all you help and support.

                                          Natasha

                                          green8300
                                          Participant

                                            yh i hear ya on that,,,,i didnt have insurance so i did research before the whole thing and it was gonna be 10k and i kept asking the dermotologist if i can still have the snb after the wide excision, she told me yes three times,,,,so i thought ok i can get this done for alot less than go somewhere else for the snb, i found out afterwards she screwed it up,,,,in my view a bit,,,,,,,,,,then i went to top oncologist he was all into doing the surgury it turned me off, he said theres a 10-15 percent chance it went to lymp area,,,,,and a 4 percent chNce of death,,,,,,,,,,i was all freaked out he didnt say anything about it hindering the process and he was aware i already had the wle,,,,,,,,,,,,,so then i went to another top guy my dermo referred me to 2 people hes the second one, hes been at ucla for 30 years doing this, he said from looking at my first pathology report, u dont need to come see me,,,,,he said it will cost u big numbers,,,,i said i was woried,,,,he said go to county hospital and get it done,,,,,,,,,,i wnt to county and they turned me away cause the cut off is 1mm mine is .65,,,,so here i am time is ticking,,,,,and im going back in forth in my head with not to much peace of mind sort of in limbo,,,,,DOES A MITOTIC RATE OF 1 OR GREATER MAKE IT STAGE B ,,,,,,,CAUSE I HAVE A MOTOTIC RATE OF 1,,,,,,,AND THERES A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENCE WHEN UR IN STAGE 1A OR 1B,,,IN 1B THEY WANT 2 CM MARGINS NOT 1 CM MARGINS,,,,SO I SHOWED ALL THAT TO DERMO SHE WAS LIKE HMMM MAYBE I NEED TO GO IN AND MAKE WIDER MARGINS,,,,,,,

                                            green8300
                                            Participant

                                              yh i hear ya on that,,,,i didnt have insurance so i did research before the whole thing and it was gonna be 10k and i kept asking the dermotologist if i can still have the snb after the wide excision, she told me yes three times,,,,so i thought ok i can get this done for alot less than go somewhere else for the snb, i found out afterwards she screwed it up,,,,in my view a bit,,,,,,,,,,then i went to top oncologist he was all into doing the surgury it turned me off, he said theres a 10-15 percent chance it went to lymp area,,,,,and a 4 percent chNce of death,,,,,,,,,,i was all freaked out he didnt say anything about it hindering the process and he was aware i already had the wle,,,,,,,,,,,,,so then i went to another top guy my dermo referred me to 2 people hes the second one, hes been at ucla for 30 years doing this, he said from looking at my first pathology report, u dont need to come see me,,,,,he said it will cost u big numbers,,,,i said i was woried,,,,he said go to county hospital and get it done,,,,,,,,,,i wnt to county and they turned me away cause the cut off is 1mm mine is .65,,,,so here i am time is ticking,,,,,and im going back in forth in my head with not to much peace of mind sort of in limbo,,,,,DOES A MITOTIC RATE OF 1 OR GREATER MAKE IT STAGE B ,,,,,,,CAUSE I HAVE A MOTOTIC RATE OF 1,,,,,,,AND THERES A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENCE WHEN UR IN STAGE 1A OR 1B,,,IN 1B THEY WANT 2 CM MARGINS NOT 1 CM MARGINS,,,,SO I SHOWED ALL THAT TO DERMO SHE WAS LIKE HMMM MAYBE I NEED TO GO IN AND MAKE WIDER MARGINS,,,,,,,

                                              green8300
                                              Participant

                                                yh i hear ya on that,,,,i didnt have insurance so i did research before the whole thing and it was gonna be 10k and i kept asking the dermotologist if i can still have the snb after the wide excision, she told me yes three times,,,,so i thought ok i can get this done for alot less than go somewhere else for the snb, i found out afterwards she screwed it up,,,,in my view a bit,,,,,,,,,,then i went to top oncologist he was all into doing the surgury it turned me off, he said theres a 10-15 percent chance it went to lymp area,,,,,and a 4 percent chNce of death,,,,,,,,,,i was all freaked out he didnt say anything about it hindering the process and he was aware i already had the wle,,,,,,,,,,,,,so then i went to another top guy my dermo referred me to 2 people hes the second one, hes been at ucla for 30 years doing this, he said from looking at my first pathology report, u dont need to come see me,,,,,he said it will cost u big numbers,,,,i said i was woried,,,,he said go to county hospital and get it done,,,,,,,,,,i wnt to county and they turned me away cause the cut off is 1mm mine is .65,,,,so here i am time is ticking,,,,,and im going back in forth in my head with not to much peace of mind sort of in limbo,,,,,DOES A MITOTIC RATE OF 1 OR GREATER MAKE IT STAGE B ,,,,,,,CAUSE I HAVE A MOTOTIC RATE OF 1,,,,,,,AND THERES A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENCE WHEN UR IN STAGE 1A OR 1B,,,IN 1B THEY WANT 2 CM MARGINS NOT 1 CM MARGINS,,,,SO I SHOWED ALL THAT TO DERMO SHE WAS LIKE HMMM MAYBE I NEED TO GO IN AND MAKE WIDER MARGINS,,,,,,,

                                                green8300
                                                Participant

                                                  thanks janner, does a mitotic rate of equal to 1 make ait 1b or is it still stage 1a?

                                                  Janner
                                                  Participant

                                                    A mitotic rate of 1 makes it stage IB – just like I am.  However, the margins are correct.  You only get 2cm margins when the lesion is deeper than 2cm.  Your margins are fine.  Almost every institution would NOT do a SNB on you given the depth of .65mm.  It's not considered a high risk lesion.   So you didn't get the incorrect treatment despite you thinking you could have the SNB later.  You're in the same boat I am in – except I've been there for 20 years.  There wasn't even a SNB back then – it didn't exist.  So even though things might not have worked out exactly like you wanted, they worked out to exactly the standard of care for your lesion.  You might not like it, but had it been me (and most people in the same boat), we would have just had the WLE without the SNB and that's it.   The SNB is surgery and can have its own complications – and it is NOT a guarantee against future spread.  It's diagnostic only.

                                                    Best wishes,

                                                    Janner

                                                    Janner
                                                    Participant

                                                      Correction.  2cm margins are done when a lesion is deeper than 2mm (not 2cm).  I'm not sure what articles you are reading with regards to margins, but the margin size has been static for some time (used to be larger) and I haven't seen or read anything that says doctors are adopting new larger margins.

                                                      Janner
                                                      Participant

                                                        Correction.  2cm margins are done when a lesion is deeper than 2mm (not 2cm).  I'm not sure what articles you are reading with regards to margins, but the margin size has been static for some time (used to be larger) and I haven't seen or read anything that says doctors are adopting new larger margins.

                                                        Janner
                                                        Participant

                                                          Correction.  2cm margins are done when a lesion is deeper than 2mm (not 2cm).  I'm not sure what articles you are reading with regards to margins, but the margin size has been static for some time (used to be larger) and I haven't seen or read anything that says doctors are adopting new larger margins.

                                                          green8300
                                                          Participant

                                                            thanks janner ur really helpful around here in a big way,,,,,wanna say a very sincere thank you to u!

                                                            green8300
                                                            Participant

                                                              thanks janner ur really helpful around here in a big way,,,,,wanna say a very sincere thank you to u!

                                                              green8300
                                                              Participant

                                                                thanks janner ur really helpful around here in a big way,,,,,wanna say a very sincere thank you to u!

                                                                green8300
                                                                Participant

                                                                  janner what else can i do,,,,?   did u  change ur diet etc          im really upset with my dermo for thinking it was 1a not 1b,,,,also for doing the wle after i asked her 3 times can i still have the other procedure she said yh,,,,she obviously didnt know it complicates things and makes it quite unreliable,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,its quite reckless,,,and negligent,,,,,,,,what else can i do ?

                                                                  Janner
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    First off, I don't think your doctor is reckless and negligent.  You had what the standard of care suggests.  What most people in your same position would have had done.  How is that reckless or negligent?  It would be hard to prove any type of negligence when you have had nothing done wrong.  Certainly, if the doctor said you could do the SNB later, she may not understand the full ramifications.  Some docs will do the SNB even after the WLE then and claim it will be fine – but it seems misleading to me.  The odds of you having a positive SNB are very small – certainly not the 10-15% claimed by the doctor who would still do the SNB.  To me, THAT doctor is more misleading than your derm.

                                                                    If you would have been diagnosed before 2011, you would have been stage IA.  New staging guidelines came out then, and I went from 1a to 1b.  Tell me this:  if you would have had a SNB with negative results, would you really have been more relieved?  Somehow, I think you'd still be dealing with the anxiety of the newly diagnosed.  The hardest thing to learn after having a cancer diagnosis is that there is little you can do to influence whether or not melanoma returns.  You have no control.  The loss of that sense of control is what most people struggle with.  The only things I did is become more sun aware and learn to watch my moles.  I've not seen anything that shows diet influences anything – and I'd probably be an example of the opposite.  My diet leaves something to be desired if you were touting it for its health benefits.  However, some people change their diet because it gives them a sense of control – something they can do.  I, personally, think that if that helps your anxiety, go for it.  But I don't believe it is going to make an ultimate difference in the outcome of melanoma – just general health.  My mantra would be more along the lines of "moderation in all things".

                                                                    It's time to move on and not research or agonize over what is done and what can't be changed.  If you feel you can no longer trust your derm, maybe it is time to look elsewhere.    But my take is the SNB was not necessary in your case (in other words, it would have been negative) and it's time to move forward.

                                                                    Best wishes,

                                                                    Janner

                                                                    Janner
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      First off, I don't think your doctor is reckless and negligent.  You had what the standard of care suggests.  What most people in your same position would have had done.  How is that reckless or negligent?  It would be hard to prove any type of negligence when you have had nothing done wrong.  Certainly, if the doctor said you could do the SNB later, she may not understand the full ramifications.  Some docs will do the SNB even after the WLE then and claim it will be fine – but it seems misleading to me.  The odds of you having a positive SNB are very small – certainly not the 10-15% claimed by the doctor who would still do the SNB.  To me, THAT doctor is more misleading than your derm.

                                                                      If you would have been diagnosed before 2011, you would have been stage IA.  New staging guidelines came out then, and I went from 1a to 1b.  Tell me this:  if you would have had a SNB with negative results, would you really have been more relieved?  Somehow, I think you'd still be dealing with the anxiety of the newly diagnosed.  The hardest thing to learn after having a cancer diagnosis is that there is little you can do to influence whether or not melanoma returns.  You have no control.  The loss of that sense of control is what most people struggle with.  The only things I did is become more sun aware and learn to watch my moles.  I've not seen anything that shows diet influences anything – and I'd probably be an example of the opposite.  My diet leaves something to be desired if you were touting it for its health benefits.  However, some people change their diet because it gives them a sense of control – something they can do.  I, personally, think that if that helps your anxiety, go for it.  But I don't believe it is going to make an ultimate difference in the outcome of melanoma – just general health.  My mantra would be more along the lines of "moderation in all things".

                                                                      It's time to move on and not research or agonize over what is done and what can't be changed.  If you feel you can no longer trust your derm, maybe it is time to look elsewhere.    But my take is the SNB was not necessary in your case (in other words, it would have been negative) and it's time to move forward.

                                                                      Best wishes,

                                                                      Janner

                                                                      green8300
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        ur probably rt wtih everything u say ,,,i have heard lots of things around diet,,,,,but yh who knows,,,,,,yh i hear ya on the doc that said the 10-15 percent,,,hes one of the top docs in the world to,,,,i see his name on old trials that hve been done,,,,like ten year studies,,,,,but yh all other stuff ive come up with doesnt correspond with what hes saying,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,can this melanoma come back can it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,how do u look out for it besides looking at ur skin,,,,etc,,,,,,thanks again janner,,,,ur really knowledgeable,,,,and i resonate with ur words,,,cheers

                                                                        green8300
                                                                        Participant

                                                                          ur probably rt wtih everything u say ,,,i have heard lots of things around diet,,,,,but yh who knows,,,,,,yh i hear ya on the doc that said the 10-15 percent,,,hes one of the top docs in the world to,,,,i see his name on old trials that hve been done,,,,like ten year studies,,,,,but yh all other stuff ive come up with doesnt correspond with what hes saying,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,can this melanoma come back can it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,how do u look out for it besides looking at ur skin,,,,etc,,,,,,thanks again janner,,,,ur really knowledgeable,,,,and i resonate with ur words,,,cheers

                                                                          Janner
                                                                          Participant

                                                                            Have a doctor show you how to palpate your nearest lymph node basin.  In the very unlikely scenario that you have spread, the lymph nodes are typically the first area they go to.  So if your melanoma was on your arm, you'd learn to check under your armpit.  Compare against the other side.  If your lesion was on your trunk somewhere, the closest lymph basin becomes a bit more difficult to know.  Talk to your doctor about this.  The key is learning what "normal" is for you so you can recognize something "not normal".  Lymph nodes swell for many reasons (illness/trauma/bug bites) so swollen nodes most often don't mean cancer, they just rate closer evaluation.

                                                                            Janner
                                                                            Participant

                                                                              Have a doctor show you how to palpate your nearest lymph node basin.  In the very unlikely scenario that you have spread, the lymph nodes are typically the first area they go to.  So if your melanoma was on your arm, you'd learn to check under your armpit.  Compare against the other side.  If your lesion was on your trunk somewhere, the closest lymph basin becomes a bit more difficult to know.  Talk to your doctor about this.  The key is learning what "normal" is for you so you can recognize something "not normal".  Lymph nodes swell for many reasons (illness/trauma/bug bites) so swollen nodes most often don't mean cancer, they just rate closer evaluation.

                                                                              Janner
                                                                              Participant

                                                                                Have a doctor show you how to palpate your nearest lymph node basin.  In the very unlikely scenario that you have spread, the lymph nodes are typically the first area they go to.  So if your melanoma was on your arm, you'd learn to check under your armpit.  Compare against the other side.  If your lesion was on your trunk somewhere, the closest lymph basin becomes a bit more difficult to know.  Talk to your doctor about this.  The key is learning what "normal" is for you so you can recognize something "not normal".  Lymph nodes swell for many reasons (illness/trauma/bug bites) so swollen nodes most often don't mean cancer, they just rate closer evaluation.

                                                                                green8300
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  ur probably rt wtih everything u say ,,,i have heard lots of things around diet,,,,,but yh who knows,,,,,,yh i hear ya on the doc that said the 10-15 percent,,,hes one of the top docs in the world to,,,,i see his name on old trials that hve been done,,,,like ten year studies,,,,,but yh all other stuff ive come up with doesnt correspond with what hes saying,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,can this melanoma come back can it,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,how do u look out for it besides looking at ur skin,,,,etc,,,,,,thanks again janner,,,,ur really knowledgeable,,,,and i resonate with ur words,,,cheers

                                                                                  Janner
                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                    First off, I don't think your doctor is reckless and negligent.  You had what the standard of care suggests.  What most people in your same position would have had done.  How is that reckless or negligent?  It would be hard to prove any type of negligence when you have had nothing done wrong.  Certainly, if the doctor said you could do the SNB later, she may not understand the full ramifications.  Some docs will do the SNB even after the WLE then and claim it will be fine – but it seems misleading to me.  The odds of you having a positive SNB are very small – certainly not the 10-15% claimed by the doctor who would still do the SNB.  To me, THAT doctor is more misleading than your derm.

                                                                                    If you would have been diagnosed before 2011, you would have been stage IA.  New staging guidelines came out then, and I went from 1a to 1b.  Tell me this:  if you would have had a SNB with negative results, would you really have been more relieved?  Somehow, I think you'd still be dealing with the anxiety of the newly diagnosed.  The hardest thing to learn after having a cancer diagnosis is that there is little you can do to influence whether or not melanoma returns.  You have no control.  The loss of that sense of control is what most people struggle with.  The only things I did is become more sun aware and learn to watch my moles.  I've not seen anything that shows diet influences anything – and I'd probably be an example of the opposite.  My diet leaves something to be desired if you were touting it for its health benefits.  However, some people change their diet because it gives them a sense of control – something they can do.  I, personally, think that if that helps your anxiety, go for it.  But I don't believe it is going to make an ultimate difference in the outcome of melanoma – just general health.  My mantra would be more along the lines of "moderation in all things".

                                                                                    It's time to move on and not research or agonize over what is done and what can't be changed.  If you feel you can no longer trust your derm, maybe it is time to look elsewhere.    But my take is the SNB was not necessary in your case (in other words, it would have been negative) and it's time to move forward.

                                                                                    Best wishes,

                                                                                    Janner

                                                                                    green8300
                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                      janner what else can i do,,,,?   did u  change ur diet etc          im really upset with my dermo for thinking it was 1a not 1b,,,,also for doing the wle after i asked her 3 times can i still have the other procedure she said yh,,,,she obviously didnt know it complicates things and makes it quite unreliable,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,its quite reckless,,,and negligent,,,,,,,,what else can i do ?

                                                                                      green8300
                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                        janner what else can i do,,,,?   did u  change ur diet etc          im really upset with my dermo for thinking it was 1a not 1b,,,,also for doing the wle after i asked her 3 times can i still have the other procedure she said yh,,,,she obviously didnt know it complicates things and makes it quite unreliable,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,its quite reckless,,,and negligent,,,,,,,,what else can i do ?

                                                                                        Janner
                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                          A mitotic rate of 1 makes it stage IB – just like I am.  However, the margins are correct.  You only get 2cm margins when the lesion is deeper than 2cm.  Your margins are fine.  Almost every institution would NOT do a SNB on you given the depth of .65mm.  It's not considered a high risk lesion.   So you didn't get the incorrect treatment despite you thinking you could have the SNB later.  You're in the same boat I am in – except I've been there for 20 years.  There wasn't even a SNB back then – it didn't exist.  So even though things might not have worked out exactly like you wanted, they worked out to exactly the standard of care for your lesion.  You might not like it, but had it been me (and most people in the same boat), we would have just had the WLE without the SNB and that's it.   The SNB is surgery and can have its own complications – and it is NOT a guarantee against future spread.  It's diagnostic only.

                                                                                          Best wishes,

                                                                                          Janner

                                                                                          Janner
                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                            A mitotic rate of 1 makes it stage IB – just like I am.  However, the margins are correct.  You only get 2cm margins when the lesion is deeper than 2cm.  Your margins are fine.  Almost every institution would NOT do a SNB on you given the depth of .65mm.  It's not considered a high risk lesion.   So you didn't get the incorrect treatment despite you thinking you could have the SNB later.  You're in the same boat I am in – except I've been there for 20 years.  There wasn't even a SNB back then – it didn't exist.  So even though things might not have worked out exactly like you wanted, they worked out to exactly the standard of care for your lesion.  You might not like it, but had it been me (and most people in the same boat), we would have just had the WLE without the SNB and that's it.   The SNB is surgery and can have its own complications – and it is NOT a guarantee against future spread.  It's diagnostic only.

                                                                                            Best wishes,

                                                                                            Janner

                                                                                            green8300
                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                              thanks janner, does a mitotic rate of equal to 1 make ait 1b or is it still stage 1a?

                                                                                              green8300
                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                thanks janner, does a mitotic rate of equal to 1 make ait 1b or is it still stage 1a?

                                                                                                green8300
                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                  janner what does this mean…..

                                                                                                  DIAGNOSIS

                                                                                                  skin and subcutaneous tissue with scar and persistance of melanoma

                                                                                                  NOTE

                                                                                                  residual intraepidermal melanoma is present in these sections however the surgical margins are clear and the neoplasm appears to be completely excised and incidental excised intradermal melanocytic nevus is also present in these sections 

                                                                                                   

                                                                                                  why do they speak of subcutaneous tissue,,,,,,,,is that just part of the wle,,,,,,there was no melanoma in that part correct??

                                                                                                  Janner
                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                    "residual intraepidermal melanoma" means melanoma was found in the WLE tissue in the epidermis only – the top most layer of skin.  "incidental excised intradermal melanocytic nevus" means there was another mole in the WLE with no relationship to the melanoma lesion.  Subcutaneous tissue refers to the fat layer removed in every WLE.  WLE's take the skin and subcutaneous tissue down to the muscle fascia. 

                                                                                                    Janner
                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                      "residual intraepidermal melanoma" means melanoma was found in the WLE tissue in the epidermis only – the top most layer of skin.  "incidental excised intradermal melanocytic nevus" means there was another mole in the WLE with no relationship to the melanoma lesion.  Subcutaneous tissue refers to the fat layer removed in every WLE.  WLE's take the skin and subcutaneous tissue down to the muscle fascia. 

                                                                                                      green8300
                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                        so taking all things into consideration u think its quite rare that i would have had it spread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i got two more cut off for biopsies and got a few more that dont look so good,,,ill know friday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thanks again   it seems kind of weird like u go on living ur life,,,u dont get the snb,,,,,life goes on,,,,,,and u dont really have any real efficient way to know if that things spreading,,,,,,,i know im beating a dead horse,,,,,but its quite knarly,,,,,i was into competitive surfing for a long time when i was in my twenties,,,,,,,and in the sun and water for years and years,,,,,,no it looks like i gotta stay sort of out of it,,,,,especially where ive all ready had the melanoma on my upper back, by my neck,,,,and reoccurence,,,,,,geesh how am i suppose to know about that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,other than the things uve explained,,,,,,,kind of knarly!  how do u know so much about it,,,,just having it for twnty years,,,,,,,,,,,,u seem like u could be an oncologist janner

                                                                                                        green8300
                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                          so taking all things into consideration u think its quite rare that i would have had it spread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i got two more cut off for biopsies and got a few more that dont look so good,,,ill know friday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thanks again   it seems kind of weird like u go on living ur life,,,u dont get the snb,,,,,life goes on,,,,,,and u dont really have any real efficient way to know if that things spreading,,,,,,,i know im beating a dead horse,,,,,but its quite knarly,,,,,i was into competitive surfing for a long time when i was in my twenties,,,,,,,and in the sun and water for years and years,,,,,,no it looks like i gotta stay sort of out of it,,,,,especially where ive all ready had the melanoma on my upper back, by my neck,,,,and reoccurence,,,,,,geesh how am i suppose to know about that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,other than the things uve explained,,,,,,,kind of knarly!  how do u know so much about it,,,,just having it for twnty years,,,,,,,,,,,,u seem like u could be an oncologist janner

                                                                                                          green8300
                                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                                            so taking all things into consideration u think its quite rare that i would have had it spread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,i got two more cut off for biopsies and got a few more that dont look so good,,,ill know friday,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thanks again   it seems kind of weird like u go on living ur life,,,u dont get the snb,,,,,life goes on,,,,,,and u dont really have any real efficient way to know if that things spreading,,,,,,,i know im beating a dead horse,,,,,but its quite knarly,,,,,i was into competitive surfing for a long time when i was in my twenties,,,,,,,and in the sun and water for years and years,,,,,,no it looks like i gotta stay sort of out of it,,,,,especially where ive all ready had the melanoma on my upper back, by my neck,,,,and reoccurence,,,,,,geesh how am i suppose to know about that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,other than the things uve explained,,,,,,,kind of knarly!  how do u know so much about it,,,,just having it for twnty years,,,,,,,,,,,,u seem like u could be an oncologist janner

                                                                                                            Janner
                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                              There is a reason they don't recommend doing a SNB for lesions under 1mm – the odds of having a positive node are very small.  If the odds were higher, they'd change the recommended criteria.  The SNB is surgery and can have its own complications.  Even if you have a negative SNB, that doesn't guarantee there won't be future spread.  The SNB shows the "current state of events" and is a diagnostic tool only.   Life goes on, and there is not a great way to check for spread.  Just pay attention to your body and for things that don't seem quite right.

                                                                                                              As for additional biopsies, the odds aren't that high (about 8%) for having another melanoma.  I remove moles that CHANGE.  If they look the same as they always did, chances are they are fine.  I still do the activities I did prior to melanoma including playing tennis outside and gardening.  I just try to do them smarter.  That may include more clothes, more sunblock, choosing times outside that are not high UV times.  But I try not to let melanoma run my life.  Maybe something like a rash shirt would cover you up, but let you enjoy surfing.  It's just about rethinking things – not eliminating things.

                                                                                                              I really got into researching melanoma after my third primary (obsessed might be a better description).  There were limited resources when I was original diagnosed and no internet.  I learned a little too much for my own good.  But then I figured out I had a knack for helping others – mainly the newly diagnosed – figure out what was going on.  So I decided to put my researching to good use.  I'm not a medical professional at all, just an interested party.

                                                                                                              Best wishes,
                                                                                                              Janner

                                                                                                              green8300
                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                thanks janner,,,,,,im starting to move on a bit,,,,,,,its still in my head ive got sunscreen now,,,and stay out of the sun,,,,,wear a hat and glasses,,,,,,u say on another post how its cumulative,,,,,and affects the dna,,,,,,,so it seems doesnt so much matter what i do now even if im good,,,,,seems like i really messed up my skin,,,,,i got so many things coming out now like moles,,,,,that were never there,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyway,,,,,,,so even with a .65 mm and a mitotic rate of 1,,,,its a very small chance like 4-5 percent or so,,,,,im upset with that one do telling me 10-15 percent chance of spreading to lymph nodes,,,,so even when they cut it out and get clear margins,,,,,,,,and lets say for hypothetical reasons it didnt spread to lymphs,,,,,,,,isnt it out of me,,,,,,,or ur saying theres a chance it can reoccur,,,,what percentage is that,,,,,,? and would i see something on my skin again in that area,,,,,,,or would it be happenning internally where i couldnt see it?  also are they making any big advances if u know of to treat this stuff,,,,,,,,,,,seems like its kind of shifty stuff,,,,,hard to get a reliable handle on?   in ur estimations if u remember my situation,,,,,if im vigilant ,,and watch things,,,,,,,i could very well not have any more problems with this in this life,,,,,and live a full life?   is there more of a probabiltiy to get another kind of cancer in my body that doesnt have anything to do with skin cancer now?  ive heard a big thing is to strenthen immune system,,,so im eating lots of greens cutting out lots of things!

                                                                                                                green8300
                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                  thanks janner,,,,,,im starting to move on a bit,,,,,,,its still in my head ive got sunscreen now,,,and stay out of the sun,,,,,wear a hat and glasses,,,,,,u say on another post how its cumulative,,,,,and affects the dna,,,,,,,so it seems doesnt so much matter what i do now even if im good,,,,,seems like i really messed up my skin,,,,,i got so many things coming out now like moles,,,,,that were never there,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyway,,,,,,,so even with a .65 mm and a mitotic rate of 1,,,,its a very small chance like 4-5 percent or so,,,,,im upset with that one do telling me 10-15 percent chance of spreading to lymph nodes,,,,so even when they cut it out and get clear margins,,,,,,,,and lets say for hypothetical reasons it didnt spread to lymphs,,,,,,,,isnt it out of me,,,,,,,or ur saying theres a chance it can reoccur,,,,what percentage is that,,,,,,? and would i see something on my skin again in that area,,,,,,,or would it be happenning internally where i couldnt see it?  also are they making any big advances if u know of to treat this stuff,,,,,,,,,,,seems like its kind of shifty stuff,,,,,hard to get a reliable handle on?   in ur estimations if u remember my situation,,,,,if im vigilant ,,and watch things,,,,,,,i could very well not have any more problems with this in this life,,,,,and live a full life?   is there more of a probabiltiy to get another kind of cancer in my body that doesnt have anything to do with skin cancer now?  ive heard a big thing is to strenthen immune system,,,so im eating lots of greens cutting out lots of things!

                                                                                                                  green8300
                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                    thanks janner,,,,,,im starting to move on a bit,,,,,,,its still in my head ive got sunscreen now,,,and stay out of the sun,,,,,wear a hat and glasses,,,,,,u say on another post how its cumulative,,,,,and affects the dna,,,,,,,so it seems doesnt so much matter what i do now even if im good,,,,,seems like i really messed up my skin,,,,,i got so many things coming out now like moles,,,,,that were never there,,,,,,,,,,,,,anyway,,,,,,,so even with a .65 mm and a mitotic rate of 1,,,,its a very small chance like 4-5 percent or so,,,,,im upset with that one do telling me 10-15 percent chance of spreading to lymph nodes,,,,so even when they cut it out and get clear margins,,,,,,,,and lets say for hypothetical reasons it didnt spread to lymphs,,,,,,,,isnt it out of me,,,,,,,or ur saying theres a chance it can reoccur,,,,what percentage is that,,,,,,? and would i see something on my skin again in that area,,,,,,,or would it be happenning internally where i couldnt see it?  also are they making any big advances if u know of to treat this stuff,,,,,,,,,,,seems like its kind of shifty stuff,,,,,hard to get a reliable handle on?   in ur estimations if u remember my situation,,,,,if im vigilant ,,and watch things,,,,,,,i could very well not have any more problems with this in this life,,,,,and live a full life?   is there more of a probabiltiy to get another kind of cancer in my body that doesnt have anything to do with skin cancer now?  ive heard a big thing is to strenthen immune system,,,so im eating lots of greens cutting out lots of things!

                                                                                                                    green8300
                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                      janner had an snb today at ucla,,,,,by dr james economou,,,,

                                                                                                                      green8300
                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                        janner had an snb today at ucla,,,,,by dr james economou,,,,

                                                                                                                        green8300
                                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                                          janner on the second read of path reports it was .73 vs .65 and 2 mitosis vs 1 mit wat u think now? i had 2 nodes tken to be looked at have nt got results yet?

                                                                                                                          JerryfromFauq
                                                                                                                          Participant
                                                                                                                            Please let us know the results of pathology of the nodes removed. i would expect them to be clear. As Janner has said LIVE LIFE. As far as the possibility of changing your diet there are a couple of things that I would suggest. MDA has made a study that supports the likelihood that Curcumin (Tumeric Extract) reduces the growth of some cancers. For people not in treatment otherwise increased antioxidants may be beneficial. Ingredients in asparagus and broccoli have also been found to have a likely benefit against cancer. These changes in diet don’t have to be huge. I also urge moderation in all things (well, at least related to health). My well known Surgical Oncologist referred me to look at Dr Andrew Weils work which is in the field of integrative medicine. No one know just what with melanoma but I’ve been satisfied with my decisions at Stage IV and still (usually) enjoy life. As Janner said Vigilance, not paranoid, keeps one going and living. (P.S. it takes the clear report at the end of the first year to really start making one feel better!)
                                                                                                                            JerryfromFauq
                                                                                                                            Participant
                                                                                                                              Please let us know the results of pathology of the nodes removed. i would expect them to be clear. As Janner has said LIVE LIFE. As far as the possibility of changing your diet there are a couple of things that I would suggest. MDA has made a study that supports the likelihood that Curcumin (Tumeric Extract) reduces the growth of some cancers. For people not in treatment otherwise increased antioxidants may be beneficial. Ingredients in asparagus and broccoli have also been found to have a likely benefit against cancer. These changes in diet don’t have to be huge. I also urge moderation in all things (well, at least related to health). My well known Surgical Oncologist referred me to look at Dr Andrew Weils work which is in the field of integrative medicine. No one know just what with melanoma but I’ve been satisfied with my decisions at Stage IV and still (usually) enjoy life. As Janner said Vigilance, not paranoid, keeps one going and living. (P.S. it takes the clear report at the end of the first year to really start making one feel better!)
                                                                                                                              JerryfromFauq
                                                                                                                              Participant
                                                                                                                                Please let us know the results of pathology of the nodes removed. i would expect them to be clear. As Janner has said LIVE LIFE. As far as the possibility of changing your diet there are a couple of things that I would suggest. MDA has made a study that supports the likelihood that Curcumin (Tumeric Extract) reduces the growth of some cancers. For people not in treatment otherwise increased antioxidants may be beneficial. Ingredients in asparagus and broccoli have also been found to have a likely benefit against cancer. These changes in diet don’t have to be huge. I also urge moderation in all things (well, at least related to health). My well known Surgical Oncologist referred me to look at Dr Andrew Weils work which is in the field of integrative medicine. No one know just what with melanoma but I’ve been satisfied with my decisions at Stage IV and still (usually) enjoy life. As Janner said Vigilance, not paranoid, keeps one going and living. (P.S. it takes the clear report at the end of the first year to really start making one feel better!)
                                                                                                                                DonW
                                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                                  Green — Post when you get your results. I'm sure the nodes will be negative.

                                                                                                                                  I hope others have been following this thread. The lesson here, which I have unfortunately seen many times in the almost 20 years I've been visiting this bulletin board, is this. When you are diganosed with melanoma, you need a melanoma specialist. Lose the derm immediately. Go to a melanoma clinic at a major medical center. This can save your life.

                                                                                                                                  green8300
                                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                                    i hope so im thinking how does this pathologist even have a job,,,,,,,,,,,he was supposedly off with the size .65 but it was .73 he said 1 mitosis it was 2,,,,he said malignant melanoma persistant,,,,,and they said it wasnt,,,,,,i got treatment according to what was said,,,,,got the wle first,,,,,,,,then after all that got the slb after wide excision which could make it off as it might not drain to same place? these are people lives there dealing with quite wreckless!

                                                                                                                                    Janner
                                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                                      You will NEVER get two pathology reports that say the same thing.  Reading pathology is as much an art as a science.  Being off a few hundredths of a millimeter is not uncommon for two reads of pathology.  Breslow depth is the best predictor because it is also the most consistent thing read on a path report.  .65 and .73mm are very close.  Really.  .08mm difference makes no difference in your outcome.  It is always best to have your slides read by a dermatopathologist.  These are people who specialize in skin pathology.  But even with two dermatopathologists, reports will seldom be the same. 

                                                                                                                                      Janner
                                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                                        You will NEVER get two pathology reports that say the same thing.  Reading pathology is as much an art as a science.  Being off a few hundredths of a millimeter is not uncommon for two reads of pathology.  Breslow depth is the best predictor because it is also the most consistent thing read on a path report.  .65 and .73mm are very close.  Really.  .08mm difference makes no difference in your outcome.  It is always best to have your slides read by a dermatopathologist.  These are people who specialize in skin pathology.  But even with two dermatopathologists, reports will seldom be the same. 

                                                                                                                                        green8300
                                                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                                                          thanks janner,,,,,,is 2 mitosis vs 1 mitosis a big deal u think,,,,,,,i still havent got my results back i had my surgury on wednesday?

                                                                                                                                          green8300
                                                                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                                                                            thanks janner,,,,,,is 2 mitosis vs 1 mitosis a big deal u think,,,,,,,i still havent got my results back i had my surgury on wednesday?

                                                                                                                                            green8300
                                                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                                                              the second path also said 2 mitosis vs 1 also that malignant melanoma was not persistant,,,,where as it said it was after the wle,,,,,,lots of different information,,,,ud think these people would be a bit more consistent when people are making important decisions,,,,

                                                                                                                                              green8300
                                                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                                                the second path also said 2 mitosis vs 1 also that malignant melanoma was not persistant,,,,where as it said it was after the wle,,,,,,lots of different information,,,,ud think these people would be a bit more consistent when people are making important decisions,,,,

                                                                                                                                                Janner
                                                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                                                  No, I really don't "think these people would be a bit more consistent".  It's the nature of the beast.  It all depends on a person's experience.  What looks like melanoma in situ to one pathologist is "severely atypical" to another.  Same with every other factor that goes into a diagnosis.  None of this has hard and fast rules – it is just a judgement call based on a bunch of different factors.  As I said before, you will rarely find two reports that are the same.  It just doesn't work that way.  Just so you know, the first report isn't necessarily wrong, it is just different. Does the first pathologist have more experience than the second?  Take them for what they're worth – 2 different opinions.  As for the SNB results, you know that is of limited value after the WLE and most likely negative anyway.

                                                                                                                                                  Regarding 1 mitosis vs. 2, they lump everyone above 0 in the same category.  2 isn't "high" but I've never seen any definition for a mitosis breakdown.  It is a newer prognostic factor and I just don't think there are a lot of studies other than showing 0 is best.  I've not seen any study that breaks out mitosis and shows survival statistics based on that factor alone when it is other than 0.  

                                                                                                                                                  Janner
                                                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                                                    No, I really don't "think these people would be a bit more consistent".  It's the nature of the beast.  It all depends on a person's experience.  What looks like melanoma in situ to one pathologist is "severely atypical" to another.  Same with every other factor that goes into a diagnosis.  None of this has hard and fast rules – it is just a judgement call based on a bunch of different factors.  As I said before, you will rarely find two reports that are the same.  It just doesn't work that way.  Just so you know, the first report isn't necessarily wrong, it is just different. Does the first pathologist have more experience than the second?  Take them for what they're worth – 2 different opinions.  As for the SNB results, you know that is of limited value after the WLE and most likely negative anyway.

                                                                                                                                                    Regarding 1 mitosis vs. 2, they lump everyone above 0 in the same category.  2 isn't "high" but I've never seen any definition for a mitosis breakdown.  It is a newer prognostic factor and I just don't think there are a lot of studies other than showing 0 is best.  I've not seen any study that breaks out mitosis and shows survival statistics based on that factor alone when it is other than 0.  

                                                                                                                                                    green8300
                                                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                                                      i went to  the doctor at ucla who introduced this procedure in 1991 he seemed to think it would tell him something,,,,,,,,,i dunno my parents forked out 15k bucks,,,,,,,,,hopefully it was worth something he specializes in melanoma and has been at ucla 30 years doing this,,,,,,,,,,,,i also went to another doctor whos been at it about the same time,,,,,,out of saint johns in santa monica he thought something could be gotten by doing it also,,,,who knows,,,,,,,,,i get my results on tuesday,,,,,,,,,,,,,so as u said awhile ago,,,,,its maybe a waist of money and painful to go thru,,,

                                                                                                                                                      green8300
                                                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                                                        i went to  the doctor at ucla who introduced this procedure in 1991 he seemed to think it would tell him something,,,,,,,,,i dunno my parents forked out 15k bucks,,,,,,,,,hopefully it was worth something he specializes in melanoma and has been at ucla 30 years doing this,,,,,,,,,,,,i also went to another doctor whos been at it about the same time,,,,,,out of saint johns in santa monica he thought something could be gotten by doing it also,,,,who knows,,,,,,,,,i get my results on tuesday,,,,,,,,,,,,,so as u said awhile ago,,,,,its maybe a waist of money and painful to go thru,,,

                                                                                                                                                        green8300
                                                                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                                                                          i went to  the doctor at ucla who introduced this procedure in 1991 he seemed to think it would tell him something,,,,,,,,,i dunno my parents forked out 15k bucks,,,,,,,,,hopefully it was worth something he specializes in melanoma and has been at ucla 30 years doing this,,,,,,,,,,,,i also went to another doctor whos been at it about the same time,,,,,,out of saint johns in santa monica he thought something could be gotten by doing it also,,,,who knows,,,,,,,,,i get my results on tuesday,,,,,,,,,,,,,so as u said awhile ago,,,,,its maybe a waist of money and painful to go thru,,,

                                                                                                                                                          green8300
                                                                                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                                                                                            once its cut out of u with clear margins arent u ooking pretty good,,,,,with a thin melanoma like .73 survival rate is like 95 percent after ten years

                                                                                                                                                            green8300
                                                                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                                                                              once its cut out of u with clear margins arent u ooking pretty good,,,,,with a thin melanoma like .73 survival rate is like 95 percent after ten years

                                                                                                                                                              green8300
                                                                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                                                                once its cut out of u with clear margins arent u ooking pretty good,,,,,with a thin melanoma like .73 survival rate is like 95 percent after ten years

                                                                                                                                                                green8300
                                                                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                                                                  5 nodes and im clear came bk negative

                                                                                                                                                                  green8300
                                                                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                                                                    5 nodes and im clear came bk negative

                                                                                                                                                                    green8300
                                                                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                                                                      5 nodes and im clear came bk negative

                                                                                                                                                                      green8300
                                                                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                                                                        im okay negative in the 5 lymphs they checked thank god!

                                                                                                                                                                        green8300
                                                                                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                                                                                          im okay negative in the 5 lymphs they checked thank god!

                                                                                                                                                                          green8300
                                                                                                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                                                                                                            im okay negative in the 5 lymphs they checked thank god!

                                                                                                                                                                            green8300
                                                                                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                                                                                              clear:)5 nodes negative

                                                                                                                                                                              green8300
                                                                                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                clear:)5 nodes negative

                                                                                                                                                                                green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                  clear:)5 nodes negative

                                                                                                                                                                                  green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                    janner i got 5 nodes taken out the surgeon said he did those cause i had the wle first,,,,,,,,,,thats why he took a chunk of fat under the arm where it was lit up by the dye it came back negative on all of them:)

                                                                                                                                                                                    green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                      janner i got 5 nodes taken out the surgeon said he did those cause i had the wle first,,,,,,,,,,thats why he took a chunk of fat under the arm where it was lit up by the dye it came back negative on all of them:)

                                                                                                                                                                                      green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                        janner i got 5 nodes taken out the surgeon said he did those cause i had the wle first,,,,,,,,,,thats why he took a chunk of fat under the arm where it was lit up by the dye it came back negative on all of them:)

                                                                                                                                                                                        Janner
                                                                                                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                          No, I really don't "think these people would be a bit more consistent".  It's the nature of the beast.  It all depends on a person's experience.  What looks like melanoma in situ to one pathologist is "severely atypical" to another.  Same with every other factor that goes into a diagnosis.  None of this has hard and fast rules – it is just a judgement call based on a bunch of different factors.  As I said before, you will rarely find two reports that are the same.  It just doesn't work that way.  Just so you know, the first report isn't necessarily wrong, it is just different. Does the first pathologist have more experience than the second?  Take them for what they're worth – 2 different opinions.  As for the SNB results, you know that is of limited value after the WLE and most likely negative anyway.

                                                                                                                                                                                          Regarding 1 mitosis vs. 2, they lump everyone above 0 in the same category.  2 isn't "high" but I've never seen any definition for a mitosis breakdown.  It is a newer prognostic factor and I just don't think there are a lot of studies other than showing 0 is best.  I've not seen any study that breaks out mitosis and shows survival statistics based on that factor alone when it is other than 0.  

                                                                                                                                                                                          green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                            the second path also said 2 mitosis vs 1 also that malignant melanoma was not persistant,,,,where as it said it was after the wle,,,,,,lots of different information,,,,ud think these people would be a bit more consistent when people are making important decisions,,,,

                                                                                                                                                                                            green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                              thanks janner,,,,,,is 2 mitosis vs 1 mitosis a big deal u think,,,,,,,i still havent got my results back i had my surgury on wednesday?

                                                                                                                                                                                              Janner
                                                                                                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                You will NEVER get two pathology reports that say the same thing.  Reading pathology is as much an art as a science.  Being off a few hundredths of a millimeter is not uncommon for two reads of pathology.  Breslow depth is the best predictor because it is also the most consistent thing read on a path report.  .65 and .73mm are very close.  Really.  .08mm difference makes no difference in your outcome.  It is always best to have your slides read by a dermatopathologist.  These are people who specialize in skin pathology.  But even with two dermatopathologists, reports will seldom be the same. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                  i hope so im thinking how does this pathologist even have a job,,,,,,,,,,,he was supposedly off with the size .65 but it was .73 he said 1 mitosis it was 2,,,,he said malignant melanoma persistant,,,,,and they said it wasnt,,,,,,i got treatment according to what was said,,,,,got the wle first,,,,,,,,then after all that got the slb after wide excision which could make it off as it might not drain to same place? these are people lives there dealing with quite wreckless!

                                                                                                                                                                                                  green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                    i hope so im thinking how does this pathologist even have a job,,,,,,,,,,,he was supposedly off with the size .65 but it was .73 he said 1 mitosis it was 2,,,,he said malignant melanoma persistant,,,,,and they said it wasnt,,,,,,i got treatment according to what was said,,,,,got the wle first,,,,,,,,then after all that got the slb after wide excision which could make it off as it might not drain to same place? these are people lives there dealing with quite wreckless!

                                                                                                                                                                                                    DonW
                                                                                                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                      Green — Post when you get your results. I'm sure the nodes will be negative.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      I hope others have been following this thread. The lesson here, which I have unfortunately seen many times in the almost 20 years I've been visiting this bulletin board, is this. When you are diganosed with melanoma, you need a melanoma specialist. Lose the derm immediately. Go to a melanoma clinic at a major medical center. This can save your life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                      DonW
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                        Green — Post when you get your results. I'm sure the nodes will be negative.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        I hope others have been following this thread. The lesson here, which I have unfortunately seen many times in the almost 20 years I've been visiting this bulletin board, is this. When you are diganosed with melanoma, you need a melanoma specialist. Lose the derm immediately. Go to a melanoma clinic at a major medical center. This can save your life.

                                                                                                                                                                                                        green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                          janner on the second read of path reports it was .73 vs .65 and 2 mitosis vs 1 mit wat u think now? i had 2 nodes tken to be looked at have nt got results yet?

                                                                                                                                                                                                          green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                            janner on the second read of path reports it was .73 vs .65 and 2 mitosis vs 1 mit wat u think now? i had 2 nodes tken to be looked at have nt got results yet?

                                                                                                                                                                                                            green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                                            Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                              janner had an snb today at ucla,,,,,by dr james economou,,,,

                                                                                                                                                                                                              Janner
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                There is a reason they don't recommend doing a SNB for lesions under 1mm – the odds of having a positive node are very small.  If the odds were higher, they'd change the recommended criteria.  The SNB is surgery and can have its own complications.  Even if you have a negative SNB, that doesn't guarantee there won't be future spread.  The SNB shows the "current state of events" and is a diagnostic tool only.   Life goes on, and there is not a great way to check for spread.  Just pay attention to your body and for things that don't seem quite right.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                As for additional biopsies, the odds aren't that high (about 8%) for having another melanoma.  I remove moles that CHANGE.  If they look the same as they always did, chances are they are fine.  I still do the activities I did prior to melanoma including playing tennis outside and gardening.  I just try to do them smarter.  That may include more clothes, more sunblock, choosing times outside that are not high UV times.  But I try not to let melanoma run my life.  Maybe something like a rash shirt would cover you up, but let you enjoy surfing.  It's just about rethinking things – not eliminating things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                I really got into researching melanoma after my third primary (obsessed might be a better description).  There were limited resources when I was original diagnosed and no internet.  I learned a little too much for my own good.  But then I figured out I had a knack for helping others – mainly the newly diagnosed – figure out what was going on.  So I decided to put my researching to good use.  I'm not a medical professional at all, just an interested party.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Best wishes,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Janner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                Janner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  There is a reason they don't recommend doing a SNB for lesions under 1mm – the odds of having a positive node are very small.  If the odds were higher, they'd change the recommended criteria.  The SNB is surgery and can have its own complications.  Even if you have a negative SNB, that doesn't guarantee there won't be future spread.  The SNB shows the "current state of events" and is a diagnostic tool only.   Life goes on, and there is not a great way to check for spread.  Just pay attention to your body and for things that don't seem quite right.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As for additional biopsies, the odds aren't that high (about 8%) for having another melanoma.  I remove moles that CHANGE.  If they look the same as they always did, chances are they are fine.  I still do the activities I did prior to melanoma including playing tennis outside and gardening.  I just try to do them smarter.  That may include more clothes, more sunblock, choosing times outside that are not high UV times.  But I try not to let melanoma run my life.  Maybe something like a rash shirt would cover you up, but let you enjoy surfing.  It's just about rethinking things – not eliminating things.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  I really got into researching melanoma after my third primary (obsessed might be a better description).  There were limited resources when I was original diagnosed and no internet.  I learned a little too much for my own good.  But then I figured out I had a knack for helping others – mainly the newly diagnosed – figure out what was going on.  So I decided to put my researching to good use.  I'm not a medical professional at all, just an interested party.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Best wishes,
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Janner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Janner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    "residual intraepidermal melanoma" means melanoma was found in the WLE tissue in the epidermis only – the top most layer of skin.  "incidental excised intradermal melanocytic nevus" means there was another mole in the WLE with no relationship to the melanoma lesion.  Subcutaneous tissue refers to the fat layer removed in every WLE.  WLE's take the skin and subcutaneous tissue down to the muscle fascia. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                    green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                                                    Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      janner what does this mean…..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      DIAGNOSIS

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      skin and subcutaneous tissue with scar and persistance of melanoma

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      NOTE

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      residual intraepidermal melanoma is present in these sections however the surgical margins are clear and the neoplasm appears to be completely excised and incidental excised intradermal melanocytic nevus is also present in these sections 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      why do they speak of subcutaneous tissue,,,,,,,,is that just part of the wle,,,,,,there was no melanoma in that part correct??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      green8300
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        janner what does this mean…..

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        DIAGNOSIS

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        skin and subcutaneous tissue with scar and persistance of melanoma

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        NOTE

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        residual intraepidermal melanoma is present in these sections however the surgical margins are clear and the neoplasm appears to be completely excised and incidental excised intradermal melanocytic nevus is also present in these sections 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        why do they speak of subcutaneous tissue,,,,,,,,is that just part of the wle,,,,,,there was no melanoma in that part correct??

                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Janner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        You've already had the wide excision (WLE), right?  Then it's really too late to do the SNB.  That must be done prior to the WLE to have any real value.  The WLE removes a lot of tissue.  It may alter the drainage paths to the sentinel node.  The "sentinel node" they find after the WLE might not be the same one they would have found before the WLE.  The SNB and WLE are typically done in the same setting with the SNB first, followed by the WLE.   In my neck of the woods, they don't really do SNB's under 1mm unless you have higher risk factors.  Yours appears to be Clark's Level II and .65mm and doesn't appear to have high risk factors.  Personally, I probably wouldn't have done the SNB based on your lesion's characteristics (I don't like unnecessary surgery), but I definitely wouldn't do it now after the WLE.  I had a similar lesion (.58mm/Clark II/1 mitosis) removed 20 years ago and a deeper one (.88mm/Clark III/1 mitosis) removed 11 years ago with no SNB.  I'm still here and still stage I. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        It's common to be "nervous and not relaxed" about the whole thing – but it is what it is.  Doing the SNB at this point would not give ME peace of mind because of the WLE.  At this point, you do the things you can control.  You can't control melanoma, but you  can watch your own skin for changes and practice sun-wise behaviors.  It's hard to adjust to that lack of control but it does get easier with time.  The key is to be vigilant, but not paranoid.  It's easy to be paranoid now, but hopefully that will give way to vigilance as time passes.  Most things aren't melanoma.  It also sounds like you are doing tons of research.  Please understand that all the research may just increase your anxiety (speaking from experience) rather than decrease it.  It might be best to take a step back for a bit because your research will not tell you if YOU will ever deal with melanoma again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Best wishes,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Janner

                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Janner
                                                                                                                                                                                                                        Participant

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          You've already had the wide excision (WLE), right?  Then it's really too late to do the SNB.  That must be done prior to the WLE to have any real value.  The WLE removes a lot of tissue.  It may alter the drainage paths to the sentinel node.  The "sentinel node" they find after the WLE might not be the same one they would have found before the WLE.  The SNB and WLE are typically done in the same setting with the SNB first, followed by the WLE.   In my neck of the woods, they don't really do SNB's under 1mm unless you have higher risk factors.  Yours appears to be Clark's Level II and .65mm and doesn't appear to have high risk factors.  Personally, I probably wouldn't have done the SNB based on your lesion's characteristics (I don't like unnecessary surgery), but I definitely wouldn't do it now after the WLE.  I had a similar lesion (.58mm/Clark II/1 mitosis) removed 20 years ago and a deeper one (.88mm/Clark III/1 mitosis) removed 11 years ago with no SNB.  I'm still here and still stage I. 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          It's common to be "nervous and not relaxed" about the whole thing – but it is what it is.  Doing the SNB at this point would not give ME peace of mind because of the WLE.  At this point, you do the things you can control.  You can't control melanoma, but you  can watch your own skin for changes and practice sun-wise behaviors.  It's hard to adjust to that lack of control but it does get easier with time.  The key is to be vigilant, but not paranoid.  It's easy to be paranoid now, but hopefully that will give way to vigilance as time passes.  Most things aren't melanoma.  It also sounds like you are doing tons of research.  Please understand that all the research may just increase your anxiety (speaking from experience) rather than decrease it.  It might be best to take a step back for a bit because your research will not tell you if YOU will ever deal with melanoma again.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Best wishes,

                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Janner

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