› Forums › General Melanoma Community › Please Help!!! Understanding Test Results
- This topic has 60 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 1 month ago by
RifClitz.
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- January 8, 2016 at 9:40 pm
Hi, Today the doctor told us that my father has Melanoma. They removed a birthmark from the back of his hip and it was positive…. The details are as follows:
Thikness: 1.1 mm
Clark Level : III
Nodular and superficial spreading
Involving Lateral margin
non-ulcerated
Mitosis: more than 4/mm2.
The doctor suggested another appt to see whether lymph nodes were penetrated.
I have a few questions. Given all this, what's the likehood that the lymph nodes were penetrated. Also, what do you think is the stage??? Please, please help!!!
- Replies
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- January 8, 2016 at 10:44 pm
You won't know staging until your father has the WLE (wide local excision) and the SNB (sentinel node biopsy). That is standard protocol for anything over 1mm. The mitosis rate would also make the doctors lean toward the SNB. (I'm pretty sure the doctor will want to do the SNB and the re-excision at the same appontment.)
There is no way to tell if this has spread without going through the process. I know the waiting is hard.
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- January 8, 2016 at 10:44 pm
You won't know staging until your father has the WLE (wide local excision) and the SNB (sentinel node biopsy). That is standard protocol for anything over 1mm. The mitosis rate would also make the doctors lean toward the SNB. (I'm pretty sure the doctor will want to do the SNB and the re-excision at the same appontment.)
There is no way to tell if this has spread without going through the process. I know the waiting is hard.
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- January 8, 2016 at 10:44 pm
You won't know staging until your father has the WLE (wide local excision) and the SNB (sentinel node biopsy). That is standard protocol for anything over 1mm. The mitosis rate would also make the doctors lean toward the SNB. (I'm pretty sure the doctor will want to do the SNB and the re-excision at the same appontment.)
There is no way to tell if this has spread without going through the process. I know the waiting is hard.
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- January 8, 2016 at 10:52 pm
Hi Susan, I've done a lot of reseach since I've heard of this news. Given that this birthmark/mole is relevantly new, I hope that melanoma did not spread. Also, the doctor said that the he's happy that the size is not less than 2mm and that it's not ulcerated…. What do you think?? As for WLE (wide local excision) and the SNB (sentinel node biopsy), do you typically get the results the same day or is there also a long waiting period?
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- January 8, 2016 at 10:52 pm
Hi Susan, I've done a lot of reseach since I've heard of this news. Given that this birthmark/mole is relevantly new, I hope that melanoma did not spread. Also, the doctor said that the he's happy that the size is not less than 2mm and that it's not ulcerated…. What do you think?? As for WLE (wide local excision) and the SNB (sentinel node biopsy), do you typically get the results the same day or is there also a long waiting period?
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- January 8, 2016 at 10:52 pm
Hi Susan, I've done a lot of reseach since I've heard of this news. Given that this birthmark/mole is relevantly new, I hope that melanoma did not spread. Also, the doctor said that the he's happy that the size is not less than 2mm and that it's not ulcerated…. What do you think?? As for WLE (wide local excision) and the SNB (sentinel node biopsy), do you typically get the results the same day or is there also a long waiting period?
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- January 8, 2016 at 10:55 pm
There is a staging calculator on this website you can use with the information you have on the biopsy to get where he is at this point. There is no ulceration – good! The mitotic rate is above 1 – not so good but currently won't upstage him. Please note the calculator may be the old criteria prior to 2005 I think. Ulceration if present will now upstage a patient, in the old version it wasn't mentioned.
You don't know his final staging at this time. He needs a sentinal node biopsy at the same time as the wide excision, only then will you know. There is enough risk at that depth to warrant the SNB which will let you know if he is stage III or not. You can search medical research articles online asking that exact question "risk of spred to lymph nodes based on initial tumor depth".
You don't have enough information at this time to know the true extent of his melanoma, only further testing will let you know. Until you have that information try not to let it mess with your head. For some that means staying off line, for others it means researching worse case scenario so you can research availible treatments to discuss with your doctor should that happen. If not, you at least have a game plan.
Don't let panic get in the way, it is a useless waste of time and energy. It is time to dig in and educate yourself first, or at least wait until all the staging information comes back, then research. Main thing is to have a good relationship with your docs.
It isn't the end of the world although it may seem like it right at this moment in time. Been there, done that, now a stage IV NED survivor over 5 years. Initially was stage 2A back in 2001. My tumor was 2.06 mm. Time makes things easier to deal with, the anxiety will pass and become more managable, but it is always there waiting for results.
KK
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- January 8, 2016 at 10:55 pm
There is a staging calculator on this website you can use with the information you have on the biopsy to get where he is at this point. There is no ulceration – good! The mitotic rate is above 1 – not so good but currently won't upstage him. Please note the calculator may be the old criteria prior to 2005 I think. Ulceration if present will now upstage a patient, in the old version it wasn't mentioned.
You don't know his final staging at this time. He needs a sentinal node biopsy at the same time as the wide excision, only then will you know. There is enough risk at that depth to warrant the SNB which will let you know if he is stage III or not. You can search medical research articles online asking that exact question "risk of spred to lymph nodes based on initial tumor depth".
You don't have enough information at this time to know the true extent of his melanoma, only further testing will let you know. Until you have that information try not to let it mess with your head. For some that means staying off line, for others it means researching worse case scenario so you can research availible treatments to discuss with your doctor should that happen. If not, you at least have a game plan.
Don't let panic get in the way, it is a useless waste of time and energy. It is time to dig in and educate yourself first, or at least wait until all the staging information comes back, then research. Main thing is to have a good relationship with your docs.
It isn't the end of the world although it may seem like it right at this moment in time. Been there, done that, now a stage IV NED survivor over 5 years. Initially was stage 2A back in 2001. My tumor was 2.06 mm. Time makes things easier to deal with, the anxiety will pass and become more managable, but it is always there waiting for results.
KK
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- January 8, 2016 at 10:55 pm
There is a staging calculator on this website you can use with the information you have on the biopsy to get where he is at this point. There is no ulceration – good! The mitotic rate is above 1 – not so good but currently won't upstage him. Please note the calculator may be the old criteria prior to 2005 I think. Ulceration if present will now upstage a patient, in the old version it wasn't mentioned.
You don't know his final staging at this time. He needs a sentinal node biopsy at the same time as the wide excision, only then will you know. There is enough risk at that depth to warrant the SNB which will let you know if he is stage III or not. You can search medical research articles online asking that exact question "risk of spred to lymph nodes based on initial tumor depth".
You don't have enough information at this time to know the true extent of his melanoma, only further testing will let you know. Until you have that information try not to let it mess with your head. For some that means staying off line, for others it means researching worse case scenario so you can research availible treatments to discuss with your doctor should that happen. If not, you at least have a game plan.
Don't let panic get in the way, it is a useless waste of time and energy. It is time to dig in and educate yourself first, or at least wait until all the staging information comes back, then research. Main thing is to have a good relationship with your docs.
It isn't the end of the world although it may seem like it right at this moment in time. Been there, done that, now a stage IV NED survivor over 5 years. Initially was stage 2A back in 2001. My tumor was 2.06 mm. Time makes things easier to deal with, the anxiety will pass and become more managable, but it is always there waiting for results.
KK
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- January 11, 2016 at 9:33 am
Hopefully that is where it will end. If the SNB is positive he jumps to stage III. If so, then further scans which hopefully won't make him a IV. I doubt he is that far along with a 1mm mass though. Not common but possible. He did have a high mitotic rate of 4.
Hang tough until you get the results of your SNB. If they don't see gross disease at the time of surgery, that is a good thing. Further staining is needed and that takes around a week at most places. About the time of your post-op visit.
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- January 11, 2016 at 9:33 am
Hopefully that is where it will end. If the SNB is positive he jumps to stage III. If so, then further scans which hopefully won't make him a IV. I doubt he is that far along with a 1mm mass though. Not common but possible. He did have a high mitotic rate of 4.
Hang tough until you get the results of your SNB. If they don't see gross disease at the time of surgery, that is a good thing. Further staining is needed and that takes around a week at most places. About the time of your post-op visit.
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- January 11, 2016 at 9:33 am
Hopefully that is where it will end. If the SNB is positive he jumps to stage III. If so, then further scans which hopefully won't make him a IV. I doubt he is that far along with a 1mm mass though. Not common but possible. He did have a high mitotic rate of 4.
Hang tough until you get the results of your SNB. If they don't see gross disease at the time of surgery, that is a good thing. Further staining is needed and that takes around a week at most places. About the time of your post-op visit.
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- January 11, 2016 at 5:46 pm
In the new staging criteria, he is at least a Stage T2a, due to the depth of the primary. That really doesn't change anything from being a stage 1. If your doctor is not a melanoma specialist, make sure that the SNB is peformed with the WLE — otherwise the surgery might change the drainage system for the lymph nodes and an SNB at a later time would not be of any value.
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- January 11, 2016 at 5:46 pm
In the new staging criteria, he is at least a Stage T2a, due to the depth of the primary. That really doesn't change anything from being a stage 1. If your doctor is not a melanoma specialist, make sure that the SNB is peformed with the WLE — otherwise the surgery might change the drainage system for the lymph nodes and an SNB at a later time would not be of any value.
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- January 11, 2016 at 5:46 pm
In the new staging criteria, he is at least a Stage T2a, due to the depth of the primary. That really doesn't change anything from being a stage 1. If your doctor is not a melanoma specialist, make sure that the SNB is peformed with the WLE — otherwise the surgery might change the drainage system for the lymph nodes and an SNB at a later time would not be of any value.
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- January 12, 2016 at 3:28 pm
UPDATE:::::
Spoke to his surgeon today…. The surgeon wants to perform WLE, CAT Scan and PAT SCAN.. and is also performing some type of a blood test. He did not suggest the SNB…which worries me a bit. I guess maybe because the size is 1.1, which is on the boarderline.
He said that once all of this info is obtained, he will send it as a package to an oncologist at Jefferson University to see what the next steps are..The Jefferson oncologist is Dr. Michael J. Mastrangelo, MD..
This whole process might take approximately 3 weeks.
Is that a good approach?
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- January 12, 2016 at 3:28 pm
UPDATE:::::
Spoke to his surgeon today…. The surgeon wants to perform WLE, CAT Scan and PAT SCAN.. and is also performing some type of a blood test. He did not suggest the SNB…which worries me a bit. I guess maybe because the size is 1.1, which is on the boarderline.
He said that once all of this info is obtained, he will send it as a package to an oncologist at Jefferson University to see what the next steps are..The Jefferson oncologist is Dr. Michael J. Mastrangelo, MD..
This whole process might take approximately 3 weeks.
Is that a good approach?
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- January 12, 2016 at 3:28 pm
UPDATE:::::
Spoke to his surgeon today…. The surgeon wants to perform WLE, CAT Scan and PAT SCAN.. and is also performing some type of a blood test. He did not suggest the SNB…which worries me a bit. I guess maybe because the size is 1.1, which is on the boarderline.
He said that once all of this info is obtained, he will send it as a package to an oncologist at Jefferson University to see what the next steps are..The Jefferson oncologist is Dr. Michael J. Mastrangelo, MD..
This whole process might take approximately 3 weeks.
Is that a good approach?
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- January 12, 2016 at 5:42 pm
CT and PET scans do not have good enough resolution to see microscopic cells – that's why the SNB is done. You can see if there is microscopic spread before it would show up on a scan. 1.1 with a mitosis of 4 isn't really borderline, it's past the normal threshold. I, personally, think the SNB is sometime done too often for lower risk lesions. However, this isn't one of those. This meets the criteria and I would want to know why it isn't at least being discussed. You can't do it later – it has to be done prior to the WLE or else the results may be compromised. The WLE can alter the drainage paths so anything done later is questionable. I'd probably be emailing the oncologist to ask his opinion prior to allowing the surgeon to proceed. Just my 2 cents.
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- January 12, 2016 at 5:42 pm
CT and PET scans do not have good enough resolution to see microscopic cells – that's why the SNB is done. You can see if there is microscopic spread before it would show up on a scan. 1.1 with a mitosis of 4 isn't really borderline, it's past the normal threshold. I, personally, think the SNB is sometime done too often for lower risk lesions. However, this isn't one of those. This meets the criteria and I would want to know why it isn't at least being discussed. You can't do it later – it has to be done prior to the WLE or else the results may be compromised. The WLE can alter the drainage paths so anything done later is questionable. I'd probably be emailing the oncologist to ask his opinion prior to allowing the surgeon to proceed. Just my 2 cents.
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- January 12, 2016 at 5:42 pm
CT and PET scans do not have good enough resolution to see microscopic cells – that's why the SNB is done. You can see if there is microscopic spread before it would show up on a scan. 1.1 with a mitosis of 4 isn't really borderline, it's past the normal threshold. I, personally, think the SNB is sometime done too often for lower risk lesions. However, this isn't one of those. This meets the criteria and I would want to know why it isn't at least being discussed. You can't do it later – it has to be done prior to the WLE or else the results may be compromised. The WLE can alter the drainage paths so anything done later is questionable. I'd probably be emailing the oncologist to ask his opinion prior to allowing the surgeon to proceed. Just my 2 cents.
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- January 12, 2016 at 6:01 pm
Dr. Mastrangelo is a melanoma specialist, so that is a good choice. I absolutely second what Janner said … talk to him *first* before having any WLE.
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- January 12, 2016 at 6:01 pm
Dr. Mastrangelo is a melanoma specialist, so that is a good choice. I absolutely second what Janner said … talk to him *first* before having any WLE.
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- January 12, 2016 at 6:01 pm
Dr. Mastrangelo is a melanoma specialist, so that is a good choice. I absolutely second what Janner said … talk to him *first* before having any WLE.
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- January 12, 2016 at 6:27 pm
If it were me or my Dad I would insist on the SNB. You sound like you are a researcher and digger of information. I recommend this video:
It has a great discussion on SNB. For many doctors the cutoff between rather or not to do a SNB is .75mm.
Brian
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- January 12, 2016 at 6:27 pm
If it were me or my Dad I would insist on the SNB. You sound like you are a researcher and digger of information. I recommend this video:
It has a great discussion on SNB. For many doctors the cutoff between rather or not to do a SNB is .75mm.
Brian
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- January 12, 2016 at 6:27 pm
If it were me or my Dad I would insist on the SNB. You sound like you are a researcher and digger of information. I recommend this video:
It has a great discussion on SNB. For many doctors the cutoff between rather or not to do a SNB is .75mm.
Brian
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- January 12, 2016 at 6:55 pm
so we're in a pretty tough situation. The original biopsy was performed on the 18 of Dec. We received his results on the Dec 7. I just spoke to his surgeon a few minutes ago and he does not want to perform the SNB. He only wants to proceed with the WLE in three day. If we look for another oncologist, we're probably going to lose another 2.5 weeks. Given that his biopsy was so long ago, does that also put him at risk?
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- January 12, 2016 at 6:55 pm
so we're in a pretty tough situation. The original biopsy was performed on the 18 of Dec. We received his results on the Dec 7. I just spoke to his surgeon a few minutes ago and he does not want to perform the SNB. He only wants to proceed with the WLE in three day. If we look for another oncologist, we're probably going to lose another 2.5 weeks. Given that his biopsy was so long ago, does that also put him at risk?
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- January 12, 2016 at 6:55 pm
so we're in a pretty tough situation. The original biopsy was performed on the 18 of Dec. We received his results on the Dec 7. I just spoke to his surgeon a few minutes ago and he does not want to perform the SNB. He only wants to proceed with the WLE in three day. If we look for another oncologist, we're probably going to lose another 2.5 weeks. Given that his biopsy was so long ago, does that also put him at risk?
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- January 12, 2016 at 7:34 pm
That stinks the surgeon isn't willing to listen to the families' input and desire. I could understand if you were requesting something completely outside the box but this is a reasonable request.
I would recommend you watch that video I sent and armed with that knowledge consider the 2.5 weeks.
When I progressed to stage III I had a known tumor and we were scheduling my surgery. My surgeon didn't have any openings for about 4 weeks. I really wanted the surgery immediately and my wife did also. She turned on the water works and we got in the next week. I'm not telling this story to tell you to turn on the waterworks. I'm telling it to let you know my surgeon didn't think a couple weeks was significant. He changed the appointment only for our emotional and psycological well-being.
Not that you asked, but if it were me I'd find another surgeon or keep the appointment and at least get a second opinion about the SNB.
Brian
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- January 12, 2016 at 7:34 pm
That stinks the surgeon isn't willing to listen to the families' input and desire. I could understand if you were requesting something completely outside the box but this is a reasonable request.
I would recommend you watch that video I sent and armed with that knowledge consider the 2.5 weeks.
When I progressed to stage III I had a known tumor and we were scheduling my surgery. My surgeon didn't have any openings for about 4 weeks. I really wanted the surgery immediately and my wife did also. She turned on the water works and we got in the next week. I'm not telling this story to tell you to turn on the waterworks. I'm telling it to let you know my surgeon didn't think a couple weeks was significant. He changed the appointment only for our emotional and psycological well-being.
Not that you asked, but if it were me I'd find another surgeon or keep the appointment and at least get a second opinion about the SNB.
Brian
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- January 12, 2016 at 7:34 pm
That stinks the surgeon isn't willing to listen to the families' input and desire. I could understand if you were requesting something completely outside the box but this is a reasonable request.
I would recommend you watch that video I sent and armed with that knowledge consider the 2.5 weeks.
When I progressed to stage III I had a known tumor and we were scheduling my surgery. My surgeon didn't have any openings for about 4 weeks. I really wanted the surgery immediately and my wife did also. She turned on the water works and we got in the next week. I'm not telling this story to tell you to turn on the waterworks. I'm telling it to let you know my surgeon didn't think a couple weeks was significant. He changed the appointment only for our emotional and psycological well-being.
Not that you asked, but if it were me I'd find another surgeon or keep the appointment and at least get a second opinion about the SNB.
Brian
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- January 12, 2016 at 10:44 pm
I would absolutely take the delay over a surgery that doesn't follow the normal protocols and for which the decision is *irreversible*!
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- January 12, 2016 at 10:44 pm
I would absolutely take the delay over a surgery that doesn't follow the normal protocols and for which the decision is *irreversible*!
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- January 12, 2016 at 10:44 pm
I would absolutely take the delay over a surgery that doesn't follow the normal protocols and for which the decision is *irreversible*!
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- January 13, 2016 at 9:24 am
IMHO – Janner as always is spot on.
It is standard procedure with a 1.1 and mitosis of 4 to have the SNB done. Seems like your doc is betting on stage IV right off the bat. If the scans are negative, then what?! He still needs a SNB Before the WLE! Unless there is something else this doctor isn't explaining to you, you can't go back and have the SNB after the WLE. Please please please don't rush into a WLE unless the SNB is done at the same time.
In my case we did becuase my moron "cancer specialist dermatologist" didn't get a wide enough WLE. My tumor was 2.06 mm and he never mentioned an SNB! He then sent me to a medical oncologist after his WLE who then sent me back to a surgical onc which is where I should have gone before he ever laid his scalpel on me a second time! That doc even knew better because my surgical oncologist told me he spoke to him personally to not touch melanoma patients if they had a tumor deeper than 1.0 mm and send them directly to him for the SNB. All water under the bridge and I am still here
.I didn't give him the chance to screw me up a third time. He couldn't even do a good skin exam which is very very easy to do and should be the first course taught in derm residency. *now off my soap box*.
I wish I had listened to the group here first but I was scared, and still didn't know if I could trust what I read online. I was in the deer in the headlights stage.
Glad you are able to get a second opinion. Now15 years after diagnosis I can say, waiting a bit more for proper care will be well worth it right now. I am kind of scared of what your doctor recommended, not the standard of care from what you have posted so far.
In the end, I became stage IV, 8 years later and it was caught when I had a back x-ray for other issues. My chiropractor sort of saved my life. The found a tumor in my lung. Amazing how treatments have changed for the better since first diagnosed in 2001.
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- January 13, 2016 at 9:24 am
IMHO – Janner as always is spot on.
It is standard procedure with a 1.1 and mitosis of 4 to have the SNB done. Seems like your doc is betting on stage IV right off the bat. If the scans are negative, then what?! He still needs a SNB Before the WLE! Unless there is something else this doctor isn't explaining to you, you can't go back and have the SNB after the WLE. Please please please don't rush into a WLE unless the SNB is done at the same time.
In my case we did becuase my moron "cancer specialist dermatologist" didn't get a wide enough WLE. My tumor was 2.06 mm and he never mentioned an SNB! He then sent me to a medical oncologist after his WLE who then sent me back to a surgical onc which is where I should have gone before he ever laid his scalpel on me a second time! That doc even knew better because my surgical oncologist told me he spoke to him personally to not touch melanoma patients if they had a tumor deeper than 1.0 mm and send them directly to him for the SNB. All water under the bridge and I am still here
.I didn't give him the chance to screw me up a third time. He couldn't even do a good skin exam which is very very easy to do and should be the first course taught in derm residency. *now off my soap box*.
I wish I had listened to the group here first but I was scared, and still didn't know if I could trust what I read online. I was in the deer in the headlights stage.
Glad you are able to get a second opinion. Now15 years after diagnosis I can say, waiting a bit more for proper care will be well worth it right now. I am kind of scared of what your doctor recommended, not the standard of care from what you have posted so far.
In the end, I became stage IV, 8 years later and it was caught when I had a back x-ray for other issues. My chiropractor sort of saved my life. The found a tumor in my lung. Amazing how treatments have changed for the better since first diagnosed in 2001.
-
- January 13, 2016 at 9:24 am
IMHO – Janner as always is spot on.
It is standard procedure with a 1.1 and mitosis of 4 to have the SNB done. Seems like your doc is betting on stage IV right off the bat. If the scans are negative, then what?! He still needs a SNB Before the WLE! Unless there is something else this doctor isn't explaining to you, you can't go back and have the SNB after the WLE. Please please please don't rush into a WLE unless the SNB is done at the same time.
In my case we did becuase my moron "cancer specialist dermatologist" didn't get a wide enough WLE. My tumor was 2.06 mm and he never mentioned an SNB! He then sent me to a medical oncologist after his WLE who then sent me back to a surgical onc which is where I should have gone before he ever laid his scalpel on me a second time! That doc even knew better because my surgical oncologist told me he spoke to him personally to not touch melanoma patients if they had a tumor deeper than 1.0 mm and send them directly to him for the SNB. All water under the bridge and I am still here
.I didn't give him the chance to screw me up a third time. He couldn't even do a good skin exam which is very very easy to do and should be the first course taught in derm residency. *now off my soap box*.
I wish I had listened to the group here first but I was scared, and still didn't know if I could trust what I read online. I was in the deer in the headlights stage.
Glad you are able to get a second opinion. Now15 years after diagnosis I can say, waiting a bit more for proper care will be well worth it right now. I am kind of scared of what your doctor recommended, not the standard of care from what you have posted so far.
In the end, I became stage IV, 8 years later and it was caught when I had a back x-ray for other issues. My chiropractor sort of saved my life. The found a tumor in my lung. Amazing how treatments have changed for the better since first diagnosed in 2001.
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- January 14, 2016 at 12:12 am
Here's another update…
I was able to find a plastic surgeon who performs WLEs. He said that he was going to partner up with a local hospital. This partnership will expedite the timeline and allow them to work on my dad hopefully sometime next week. He indicated that a surgeon from the hospital will perform the SNB and then he will perform the WLE. The hospital surgeons seems to be pretty experienced.
what do y'all think?
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- January 14, 2016 at 12:12 am
Here's another update…
I was able to find a plastic surgeon who performs WLEs. He said that he was going to partner up with a local hospital. This partnership will expedite the timeline and allow them to work on my dad hopefully sometime next week. He indicated that a surgeon from the hospital will perform the SNB and then he will perform the WLE. The hospital surgeons seems to be pretty experienced.
what do y'all think?
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- January 14, 2016 at 12:12 am
Here's another update…
I was able to find a plastic surgeon who performs WLEs. He said that he was going to partner up with a local hospital. This partnership will expedite the timeline and allow them to work on my dad hopefully sometime next week. He indicated that a surgeon from the hospital will perform the SNB and then he will perform the WLE. The hospital surgeons seems to be pretty experienced.
what do y'all think?
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Tagged: cutaneous melanoma
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